As a draftsman at a furniture factory he met HP Berlage know whom he would later collaborate on the creation of ‘t Interior . In the period 1898-1900 he was a traveling salesman with Faience and Tile Factory Holland Utrecht. At the time he had his own commerce as a draftsman and designer . In his spare time, he designed his own tile patterns. At first the factory wouldn’t take them in production. As a salesman , he nevertheless presented these designs by his clients who were so enthusiastic that they were yet taken into production.